| Many thanks [message #249133] |
Mon, 05 May 2014 19:48  |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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Many thanks to those valiant souls who got me going after the great time at Bean Station. I won't mention names, but you know who you are. Thanks a million.
"It's always a ground" 
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: Many thanks [message #249141 is a reply to message #249133] |
Mon, 05 May 2014 22:50  |
rjw
Messages: 697
Registered: September 2005
Karma: 4
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| stick miller wrote on Mon, 05 May 2014 20:48 |
Many thanks to those valiant souls who got me going after the great time at Bean Station. I won't mention names, but you know who you are. Thanks a million.
"It's always a ground"
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It was quite a show you put on with all the smoke that you let out of your starter. Sure was a good thing that you had qualified help on hand (that guy from Canada comes to mind) and it helped that you had a spare starter in your pod. I blew it by not taking pictures of your fun. I tired to take a picture of every thing else at the rally.
Richard
76 Palm Beach
SE Michigan
www.PalmBeachGMC.com
Roller Cam 455, TBI+EBL, 3.42 FD, 4 Bag, Macerator, Lenzi (brakes, vacuum system, front end stuff), Manny Tranny, vacuum step, Tankless + OEM water heaters.
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| Re: Many thanks [message #249152 is a reply to message #249141] |
Tue, 06 May 2014 09:39 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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Yep, Richard - without pictures it didn't happen.
Paul Doane is the guy from Canada with the stretch. He and Nancy were my neighbors at the Dothan rally last year. Very nice couple and he is an excellent mechanic. With help from George Z and Hubert Rowell and several others it was determined that the smoke came from a small wire hooked directly to the starter (ground) that is the ground from the alternator. When the main ground failed, that little wire assumed the ground position and it fried.
Need to buy or have new battery cables made.
In the meantime, I'll take the starter to be tested and rebuilt as necessary. I really don't think there is anything wrong with it. The spare seems to be working perfectly.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: Many thanks [message #249157 is a reply to message #249152] |
Tue, 06 May 2014 10:29 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Now you know why I keep preaching not to install parallel ground wires.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Many thanks [message #249159 is a reply to message #249157] |
Tue, 06 May 2014 12:17 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
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Do you mean running them in the same vicinity or running that alternator ground at all? I understand there is some question as to the need for that additional ground. Is the alternator sufficiently grounded to the frame? Do I need to replace or eliminate that wire.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: Many thanks [message #249181 is a reply to message #249159] |
Fri, 09 May 2014 00:17 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Since a ground wire attached to the stater is non-standard, I have no idea where the other end of the wire went went or why it was installed. The Master ground for the GMC engine side of the 12 volt power system is the engine block. The starter is directly mounted to the engine block and so is the alternator. So both of them get their ground directly because of their mounting.
The battery negative terminal should be attached directly to the engine block (master ground). There should be no connection from the battery to the frame. There is a second wire (about 12 ga.) connected to the engine battery negative terminal. The other end of that wire goes up front and attaches to the aluminum plate that the boost solenoid and isolator are mounted on.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: Many thanks [message #249199 is a reply to message #249133] |
Fri, 09 May 2014 07:29 |
jhbridges
Messages: 8412
Registered: May 2011
Location: Braselton ga
Karma: -74
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Let me add, when replacing battery cables, buy the largest gauge available, and always get molded or crimped ends. The bolt - on 'get by' clamps are suitable only to get you home. They will corrode and create grief. If you don't have a crimper, buy pre-made, they're available in pretty much any length and end configuration. I personally favor post clamps over the GM style side mounts, but either way stay away from add - on ends.
--johnny
Foolish Carriage, 76 26' Eleganza(?) with beaucoup mods and add - ons.
Braselton, Ga.
I forgive them all, save those who hurt the dogs. They must answer to me in hell
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| Re: [GMCnet] Many thanks [message #249229 is a reply to message #249199] |
Fri, 09 May 2014 09:24 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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If you can find the batteries with BOTH top posts and GM side posts that fit, I recommend them! Use the top posts for heavy usage (starter) and get adaptors to put other functions (radios, electric brake functions, etc.).
P.S. Great many thanks to whomever got the GMC Mail List back up. I've been suffering withdrawal symptoms!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
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> Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 06:29:11 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> From: jhbridges@ymail.com
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Many thanks
>
> Let me add, when replacing battery cables, buy the largest gauge available, and always get molded or crimped ends. The bolt - on 'get by' clamps are
> suitable only to get you home. They will corrode and create grief. If you don't have a crimper, buy pre-made, they're available in pretty much any
> length and end configuration. I personally favor post clamps over the GM style side mounts, but either way stay away from add - on ends.
>
> --johnny
> --
> "Sometimes I wonder what tomorrow's gonna bring when I think about my dirty life and times" --Warren Zevon
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| Re: Many thanks [message #249240 is a reply to message #249181] |
Fri, 09 May 2014 12:10 |
Bob de Kruyff
Messages: 4260
Registered: January 2004
Location: Chandler, AZ
Karma: 1
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Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 08 May 2014 23:17Since a ground wire attached to the stater is non-standard, I have no idea where the other end of the wire went went or why it was installed. The Master ground for the GMC engine side of the 12 volt power system is the engine block. The starter is directly mounted to the engine block and so is the alternator. So both of them get their ground directly because of their mounting.
The battery negative terminal should be attached directly to the engine block (master ground). There should be no connection from the battery to the frame. There is a second wire (about 12 ga.) connected to the engine battery negative terminal. The other end of that wire goes up front and attaches to the aluminum plate that the boost solenoid and isolator are mounted on.
Ken, I know this has come up several times, but some of us have ground cables both to the engine and the frame (dual terminal battery), Is there a downside to that?
Bob de Kruyff
78 Eleganza
Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Many thanks [message #249252 is a reply to message #249240] |
Fri, 09 May 2014 12:59 |
emerystora
Messages: 4442
Registered: January 2004
Karma: 13
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The downside is that if the cable to the engine block gets loose or corroded then everything grounded through the engine block could possibly draw excess current through a smaller wire or through the radiator, etc. The starter could cause burning of wires. Other current draws could cause lower voltages. However the chances of a loose cable to the block is probably unlikely and good maintenance would eliminate corrosion possibilities.
Emery Stora
On May 9, 2014, at 11:10 AM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
> Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 08 May 2014 23:17
>> Since a ground wire attached to the stater is non-standard, I have no idea where the other end of the wire went went or why it was installed. The
>> Master ground for the GMC engine side of the 12 volt power system is the engine block. The starter is directly mounted to the engine block and so
>> is the alternator. So both of them get their ground directly because of their mounting.
>>
>> The battery negative terminal should be attached directly to the engine block (master ground). There should be no connection from the battery to
>> the frame. There is a second wire (about 12 ga.) connected to the engine battery negative terminal. The other end of that wire goes up front and
>> attaches to the aluminum plate that the boost solenoid and isolator are mounted on.
>
> Ken, I know this has come up several times, but some of us have ground cables both to the engine and the frame (dual terminal battery), Is there a
> downside to that?
> --
> Bob de Kruyff
> 78 Eleganza
> Chandler, AZ
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| Re: [GMCnet] Many thanks [message #249257 is a reply to message #249252] |
Fri, 09 May 2014 13:24 |
stick miller
Messages: 1036
Registered: March 2010
Location: Americus, Georgia
Karma: 0
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emerystora wrote on Fri, 09 May 2014 13:59The downside is that if the cable to the engine block gets loose or corroded then everything grounded through the engine block could possibly draw excess current through a smaller wire.
Emery - that is precisely what happened to me at Bean Station (I think). Lots of smoke and, thankfully, no fire.
Stick Miller
'78 Royale - "White Trash" - she left me for another man
'76 Eleganza - "Cousin Eddie" Sold
'84 Bluebird Wanderlodge - "Past Tents"
Americus, GA
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| Re: Many thanks [message #249259 is a reply to message #249204] |
Fri, 09 May 2014 13:31 |
Ken Burton
Messages: 10030
Registered: January 2004
Location: Hebron, Indiana
Karma: 10
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Ah so. I had a long discussion with Dick Paterson about that added wire and explained that would happen (wire burn up) if the main ground cable came loose, corroded or other wise had loose connection. You can reinstall that wire from the distributor but connect it to and engine bolt on the back of the head or intake manifold.
Dick now says in his presentations to connect that added ground wire to somewhere on the engine block (the master ground). What caused it to burn was all of the current during starting traveled through the distributor and through that thin wire to the negative terminal of the battery. Also all charging current to the battery used that thinner parallel ground wire when the coach was running.
Clean up and/or replace the main battery cables. Move that distributor ground wire to the engine block.
Ken Burton - N9KB
76 Palm Beach
Hebron, Indiana
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| Re: [GMCnet] Many thanks [message #249284 is a reply to message #249252] |
Fri, 09 May 2014 16:34 |
k2gkk
Messages: 4452
Registered: November 2009
Karma: -8
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Senior Member |
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I've seen similar problems where that cable came loose and the driver's attempt to start the engine ran THROUGH his ham radio rig! Not pretty there, either!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ D C "Mac" Macdonald ~ ~~
~ ~ Amateur Radio - K2GKK ~ ~
~ ~ USAF and FAA, Retired ~ ~
~ ~ ~ Oklahoma City, OK ~ ~ ~
~~ ~ ~ "The Money Pit" ~ ~ ~~
~ ~ ~ ~ TZE166V101966 ~ ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~ '76 ex-Palm Beach ~ ~ ~
~~ k2gkk + hotmail dot com ~~
~ www.gmcmhphotos.com/okclb ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
______________
*[ ]~~~[][ ][|\
*--OO--[]---O-*
> From: emerystora@mac.com
> Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 11:59:24 -0600
> To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
> Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Many thanks
>
> The downside is that if the cable to the engine block gets loose or corroded then everything grounded through the engine block could possibly draw excess current through a smaller wire or through the radiator, etc. The starter could cause burning of wires. Other current draws could cause lower voltages. However the chances of a loose cable to the block is probably unlikely and good maintenance would eliminate corrosion possibilities.
>
> Emery Stora
>
> On May 9, 2014, at 11:10 AM, Bob de Kruyff wrote:
>
>> Ken Burton wrote on Thu, 08 May 2014 23:17
>>> Since a ground wire attached to the stater is non-standard, I have no idea where the other end of the wire went went or why it was installed. The
>>> Master ground for the GMC engine side of the 12 volt power system is the engine block. The starter is directly mounted to the engine block and so
>>> is the alternator. So both of them get their ground directly because of their mounting.
>>>
>>> The battery negative terminal should be attached directly to the engine block (master ground). There should be no connection from the battery to
>>> the frame. There is a second wire (about 12 ga.) connected to the engine battery negative terminal. The other end of that wire goes up front and
>>> attaches to the aluminum plate that the boost solenoid and isolator are mounted on.
>>
>> Ken, I know this has come up several times, but some of us have ground cables both to the engine and the frame (dual terminal battery), Is there a
>> downside to that?
>> --
>> Bob de Kruyff
>> 78 Eleganza
>> Chandler, AZ
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