Home » Public Forums » GMCnet » Lifter recommendation
Lifter recommendation [message #370958] |
Tue, 03 January 2023 18:52 |
Larry
Messages: 2875 Registered: January 2004 Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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I will be replacing the lifters in a 2003 6L Chevy Suburban engine with almost 300K miles. What is a recommended brand name of lifter that I should get for lifter replacement in this engine?
Thanks all.....
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #370962 is a reply to message #370958] |
Wed, 04 January 2023 21:10 |
winter
Messages: 247 Registered: September 2007 Location: MPLS MN
Karma: 0
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I recently put a rebuilt transmission in my 03 trailblazer than has 420K on the clock. Why give up on a rig that has earned its keep?
Jerrod Winter
1977 Palm Beach
Green Jelly Bean
Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #370964 is a reply to message #370963] |
Thu, 05 January 2023 20:01 |
Larry
Messages: 2875 Registered: January 2004 Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Matt Colie wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 08:56Larry,
If the lifter is just noisy, it may just be gummed up. That be the case, you might do a change to a lighter weight synthetic for at least one change. It may get in there and make it quiet down a little. Sure is easier than pulling the heads.
Matt
Matt,
It is noisy on cold start-up. Clattering goes away in about a minute of running. Oil is Mobil 1 0W40. Then starts clattering again when running down the freeway at 2100 rpm for 10-15 minutes. Clatter eventually goes away when off the freeway in 30-40mph traffic. Oil pressure runs at 30-35 cold start, and gains to 40 at hwy speeds. The warmer the engine gets, seems to gain 2-3lbs. Son-in law has made regular 3K oil changes since new with only Mobil 1 oils. I don't think it is a gummed up issue. Seems like lifters that are just worn out. JWIT. Thanks for the suggestion.
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
[Updated on: Thu, 05 January 2023 20:02] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #370966 is a reply to message #370964] |
Fri, 06 January 2023 11:13 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Larry wrote on Thu, 05 January 2023 21:01Matt,
It is noisy on cold start-up. Clattering goes away in about a minute of running. Oil is Mobil 1 0W40. Then starts clattering again when running down the freeway at 2100 rpm for 10-15 minutes. Clatter eventually goes away when off the freeway in 30-40mph traffic. Oil pressure runs at 30-35 cold start, and gains to 40 at hwy speeds. The warmer the engine gets, seems to gain 2-3lbs. Son-in law has made regular 3K oil changes since new with only Mobil 1 oils. I don't think it is a gummed up issue. Seems like lifters that are just worn out. JWIT. Thanks for the suggestion.
Larry,
What you have is exactly what engine engineering has called "Morning Sickness".
With SILs attention, I am surprised that it has happened. But quite honestly, the available sample of engines with that sort of service length has only become available recently. Personally, with Mobil 1 and that sort of service interval, the lash adjusters should not be either worn out or gummed up. So, I guess I am going to have to load that one in my sample file and see if I can think anything.
I am with you about not breaking open a good running 300K motor.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #370968 is a reply to message #370967] |
Sun, 08 January 2023 19:57 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Dominik wrote on Fri, 06 January 2023 15:49After 20 years, it might be a good idea to have a look under the valve covers.
Don‘t forget to replace the valve cover rubber gasket. Order them beforehand.
Dominik,
Did you ever find a GMC to buy?
The GM 6.0 was one of their most robust engines (probably why the discontinued it). The only thing Larry could do under the cylinder head covers might be the valve guide seals. But in this engine series, he is more likely to loose a coil pack. If I remember correctly, there is also enough top FEAD on the engine to make removing the head covers a real bear AND (depending on the assembly plant - there were 2), it could have formed in place gaskets. Those are famous for leaking if not applied on automated line at St.Katherines (PO).
If it is just being noisy, Larry is better off just turning the radio up.
Matt - the refugee from dyno-land
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #370969 is a reply to message #370968] |
Sun, 08 January 2023 21:54 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186 Registered: January 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Larry,
I have a 2006 C-20 HD work truck with the 6.0 engine in it. Some time back, this truck (with just under 200,000 miles on the clock) was doing the same thing you are describing. Along with the lifter clattering at startup, it also had somewhat low oil pressure, which got better as it warmed up.
The initial diagnosis was that it maybe needed a new oil pump, but my mechanic fiend wanted to try something else first. He said his previous experience with this same issue showed that the oil pump was generally okay but he theorized that the problem was the O-ring seal at the oil pickup. His thinking was that it was leaking when it was cold and as it warmed up, it would swell just enough to seal up.
Since the oil pan is easy to access on this truck, he wanted to try just changing that O-ring instead of doing the much more involved, and expensive, oil pump job. I was willing to take a chance on it and he dropped the pan and changed out the o-ring. That immediately fixed the problem. The truck has good oil pressure and NO lifter noise right from a cold startup and runs like new.
Chances are you are experiencing the same problem and a simple O-ring change might be the fix.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #370985 is a reply to message #370968] |
Sat, 14 January 2023 17:48 |
Dominik
Messages: 78 Registered: July 2014 Location: Zurich reg., Switzerland
Karma: 0
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Matt Colie wrote on Sun, 08 January 2023 19:57Dominik wrote on Fri, 06 January 2023 15:49After 20 years, it might be a good idea to have a look under the valve covers.
Don‘t forget to replace the valve cover rubber gasket. Order them beforehand.
Dominik,
Did you ever find a GMC to buy?
No,I've been busy with "life"... But this year might be it, waiting for the travel restrictions on not-vaccinated people to be lifted.
Yes, I'm one of them. Let me open up my umbrella before you start spitting!
Matt Colie wrote on Sun, 08 January 2023 19:57The GM 6.0 was one of their most robust engines (probably why the discontinued it). The only thing Larry could do under the cylinder head covers might be the valve guide seals. But in this engine series, he is more likely to loose a coil pack. If I remember correctly, there is also enough top FEAD on the engine to make removing the head covers a real bear AND (depending on the assembly plant - there were 2), it could have formed in place gaskets. Those are famous for leaking if not applied on automated line at St.Katherines (PO).
If it is just being noisy, Larry is better off just turning the radio up.
Matt - the refugee from dyno-land
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be assumptive with my suggestions – I just spent hundreds of dollars (actually, swiss francs) and hundreds of hours replacing parts on a 1988 Chrysler 3.0 Liter engine (Mitsubishi), and am still having the same knocking problems as I had from the start. Just trying to save Larry from replacing parts that are fine – Like me, replacing the Lash Adjusters twice to no avail...
I tried to leave out the technical questions to my old Chrysler minivan from the GMC Motorhome forum, but if they're welcome, I'll gladly ask.
Best wishes, have a safe and healthy new year;
Dominik
- The good the bad and the ugly and its all me -
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #370987 is a reply to message #370985] |
Sun, 15 January 2023 08:46 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Dominik wrote on Sat, 14 January 2023 18:48I'm sorry, I don't mean to be assumptive with my suggestions – I just spent hundreds of dollars (actually, swiss francs) and hundreds of hours replacing parts on a 1988 Chrysler 3.0 Liter engine (Mitsubishi), and am still having the same knocking problems as I had from the start. Just trying to save Larry from replacing parts that are fine – Like me, replacing the Lash Adjusters twice to no avail...
I tried to leave out the technical questions to my old Chrysler minivan from the GMC Motorhome forum, but if they're welcome, I'll gladly ask.
Best wishes, have a safe and healthy new year;
Dominik
Dominik,
Comments are always welcome here. Not many here know about the MM3.0 engine issues.
As to your knock, have you replaced the pistons and wrist pins?
Some were manufactured not far from here. Because this and working for the late Chrysler company, I was aware that the MM plant had the same issue that the Kenosha plant had with wrist pin fits. People were not aware that the process used to make the bore for the wrist pin did not make a truly round hole. They both had used the same gauging for years. The two point gauge that they used did not detect that the bore was actually a "Tri-sub cycloid" (this is the sort of a triangular hole that a 2 flute drill will make in thin material). When they went to an improved process that made round holes, the piston bore was now too large but measured to be correct to a two point gauge. This was instantly obvious when they changed the gauging system.
This condition existed with both your engine and the Jeep 4.0 (I-6) engine. It was bad enough that Jeeps were being accused of being diesels because the knock was so loud at idle.
What I can't tell you is how to acquire the correctly fit pins and pistons for that engine. - Sorry -
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #370988 is a reply to message #370958] |
Sun, 15 January 2023 10:56 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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Matt I’m assuming the 4.0 I-6 wrist pin knock is nothing to worry about? My 99 XJ is at 321,000 and it’s noticeable only when I first pull to end of driveway and get out to get the mail. Not enough to hear in the vehicle. My Cinnabar built 455 on the other hand has cold start piston slap (only hear 1) at cold starts. It goes away after a couple mins. Assuming better than too tight? About 15,000 on the 455.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #370989 is a reply to message #370988] |
Sun, 15 January 2023 13:05 |
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Matt Colie
Messages: 8547 Registered: March 2007 Location: S.E. Michigan
Karma: 7
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Senior Member |
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JohnL455 wrote on Sun, 15 January 2023 11:56Matt I’m assuming the 4.0 I-6 wrist pin knock is nothing to worry about? My 99 XJ is at 321,000 and it’s noticeable only when I first pull to end of driveway and get out to get the mail. Not enough to hear in the vehicle. My Cinnabar built 455 on the other hand has cold start piston slap (only hear 1) at cold starts. It goes away after a couple mins. Assuming better than too tight? About 15,000 on the 455.
John,
We tested the Hell out of the Kenosha 4.0s with that knock. Yes, they were noisy, but we couldn't come up with a way to make them actually fail.
We had a "wall" test at Jeep/Truck. To identify the level of knock, a driver would pull up next to a specific wall and, with the window open, repeatedly position the Jeep closer to the wall. When one of the chosen technicians decided that was annoying, he would measure the distance to the wall in his report. I go several of the 10' engines in to my durability lab and beat the crap out of them. They stayed noisy but kept on putting out rated power for lots of test hours.
Your Cinnabar engine probably was just honed a little hard on one bore. If they had measured, they could have ordered one piston a couple of thousanths larger. But that would have required extra attention. Just don't ask it for high load until it quiets down. The way modern pistons are made, it is hard to get then too tight if you can actually assemble the engine. Pistons are not a simple thing.
Matt
Matt & Mary Colie - Chaumière -'73 Glacier 23 - Members GMCMI, GMCGL, GMCES
Electronically Controlled Quiet Engine Cooling Fan with OE Rear Drum Brakes with Applied Control Arms
SE Michigan - Near DTW - Twixt A2 and Detroit
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #371218 is a reply to message #370958] |
Tue, 21 March 2023 21:53 |
Larry
Messages: 2875 Registered: January 2004 Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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Back in early January of 2023 Idid a post entitled "Lifter recommendation" and wanted to let those interested (especially Carl Stouffer ) what happened.
Here is the post:
I will be replacing the lifters in a 2003 6L Chevy Suburban engine with almost 300K miles. What is a recommended brand name of lifter that I should get for lifter replacement in this engine?
Thanks all.....
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Here is Carls response.
Larry,
I have a 2006 C-20 HD work truck with the 6.0 engine in it. Some time back, this truck (with just under 200,000 miles on the clock) was doing the same thing you are describing. Along with the lifter clattering at startup, it also had somewhat low oil pressure, which got better as it warmed up.
The initial diagnosis was that it maybe needed a new oil pump, but my mechanic fiend wanted to try something else first. He said his previous experience with this same issue showed that the oil pump was generally okay but he theorized that the problem was the O-ring seal at the oil pickup. His thinking was that it was leaking when it was cold and as it warmed up, it would swell just enough to seal up.
Since the oil pan is easy to access on this truck, he wanted to try just changing that O-ring instead of doing the much more involved, and expensive, oil pump job. I was willing to take a chance on it and he dropped the pan and changed out the o-ring. That immediately fixed the problem. The truck has good oil pressure and NO lifter noise right from a cold startup and runs like new.
Chances are you are experiencing the same problem and a simple O-ring change might be the fix.
Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ
As a result of Carls response, researching the "O" ring change I found this to be a very common problem with high milage LS GM engines. I bought the pan gasket, "O" ring, and Oil cooler gasket, and spent two days dropping pan and Oil pick-up tube to find that the O ring had hardened up, and shrunk in size. Replaced the O ring and put it back together. Oil pressure has increased from around 35psi at a hot run, to 60psi at a hot run. No start-up lifter clatter, and no lifter clatter after running on the highway for 30 minutes or so. Oil pressure is now steady instead of varying from 20-40psi at random. Anyway, THANKS CARL STOUFFER. Saved me a lot of trouble and now potential for reaching 400K miles.
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #371219 is a reply to message #371218] |
Tue, 21 March 2023 22:50 |
Carl S.
Messages: 4186 Registered: January 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ.
Karma: 13
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Larry wrote on Tue, 21 March 2023 19:53Back in early January of 2023 Idid a post entitled "Lifter recommendation" and wanted to let those interested (especially Carl Stouffer ) what happened.
Here is the post:
I will be replacing the lifters in a 2003 6L Chevy Suburban engine with almost 300K miles. What is a recommended brand name of lifter that I should get for lifter replacement in this engine?
Thanks all.....
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
Here is Carls response.
Larry,
I have a 2006 C-20 HD work truck with the 6.0 engine in it. Some time back, this truck (with just under 200,000 miles on the clock) was doing the same thing you are describing. Along with the lifter clattering at startup, it also had somewhat low oil pressure, which got better as it warmed up.
The initial diagnosis was that it maybe needed a new oil pump, but my mechanic fiend wanted to try something else first. He said his previous experience with this same issue showed that the oil pump was generally okay but he theorized that the problem was the O-ring seal at the oil pickup. His thinking was that it was leaking when it was cold and as it warmed up, it would swell just enough to seal up.
Since the oil pan is easy to access on this truck, he wanted to try just changing that O-ring instead of doing the much more involved, and expensive, oil pump job. I was willing to take a chance on it and he dropped the pan and changed out the o-ring. That immediately fixed the problem. The truck has good oil pressure and NO lifter noise right from a cold startup and runs like new.
Chances are you are experiencing the same problem and a simple O-ring change might be the fix.
Carl Stouffer '75 ex Palm Beach Tucson, AZ
As a result of Carls response, researching the "O" ring change I found this to be a very common problem with high milage LS GM engines. I bought the pan gasket, "O" ring, and Oil cooler gasket, and spent two days dropping pan and Oil pick-up tube to find that the O ring had hardened up, and shrunk in size. Replaced the O ring and put it back together. Oil pressure has increased from around 35psi at a hot run, to 60psi at a hot run. No start-up lifter clatter, and no lifter clatter after running on the highway for 30 minutes or so. Oil pressure is now steady instead of varying from 20-40psi at random. Anyway, THANKS CARL STOUFFER. Saved me a lot of trouble and now potential for reaching 400K miles.
You're welcome! Relatively simple fix, wasn't it.
Carl Stouffer
'75 ex Palm Beach
Tucson, AZ.
Chuck Aulgur Reaction Arm Disc Brakes, Quadrabags, 3.70 LSD final drive, Lenzi knuckles/hubs, Dodge Truck 16" X 8" front wheels, Rear American Eagles, Solar battery charging. GMCSJ and GMCMI member
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #371220 is a reply to message #371219] |
Wed, 22 March 2023 06:06 |
Larry
Messages: 2875 Registered: January 2004 Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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[quote title=Carl S. wrote on Tue, 21 March 2023 22:50]Larry wrote on Tue, 21 March 2023 19:53Back in early January of 2023 Idid a post entitled "Lifter recommendation" and wanted to let those interested (especially Carl Stouffer ) what happened.
You're welcome! Relatively simple fix, wasn't it.
Carl,
Actually, A good fix, but in this case not simple. The son-in-law's truck is a 2500HD with 4WD. That ment dropping the front pumpkin which made "JUST" enough room to juggle the pan out. If there had been even 1/8" less room...... Took about 3 hrs to get it apart, and 6 hrs to reassemble. Still better than replacing all lifters and finding out that was not it. Again, a big THANKS. Your suggestion was right on!
Larry
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #371221 is a reply to message #370958] |
Wed, 22 March 2023 08:58 |
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RF_Burns
Messages: 2277 Registered: June 2008 Location: S. Ontario, Canada
Karma: 3
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Ok, I'll bite, what's this "Front Pumpkin" thing of which you speak?
That ment dropping the front pumpkin which made "JUST" enough room to juggle the pan out.
I installed some Pumpkin Spice brake pads just before Thanksgiving. I was hungry for pie at every stop light!
Bruce Hislop
ON Canada
77PB, 455 Dick P. rebuilt, DynamicEFI EBL EFI & ESC. 1 ton front end
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=29001
My Staff says I never listen to them, or something like that
[Updated on: Wed, 22 March 2023 09:03] Report message to a moderator
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Re: Lifter recommendation [message #371224 is a reply to message #370958] |
Wed, 22 March 2023 09:15 |
JohnL455
Messages: 4447 Registered: October 2006 Location: Woodstock, IL
Karma: 12
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This is a perfect ending story solved by input from group members, especially Carl with a hands on experience answer.
John Lebetski
Woodstock, IL
77 Eleganza II
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