| Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #238712] |
Mon, 03 February 2014 23:09  |
Francois
Messages: 161
Registered: October 2012
Location: Southern California
Karma: 0
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So my roof ladder has some stripped screws on the rear panel. I guess I thought I would replace all sixteen of them with stainless screws and teenuts.
Looking at the rear panel, I saw a lot of number three phillips head screws. The only thing is, I cannot loosen one of them. I even tapped on an impact driver, but considering the fiberglass construction of the rear panel, I figured I would crack the hell out of it if I hit it much more or harder with a hammer.
My thought was, if I could get the panel off, I could get access to the other side of the surface and place the teenuts in there.
Is this approach wrong?
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| Re: Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #238730 is a reply to message #238712] |
Tue, 04 February 2014 09:11  |
1275gtsport
Messages: 272
Registered: September 2009
Location: Rothesay NB
Karma: 0
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It might be easier to go at it from inside. On my Palm Beach there is only a couple of screws holding the inner panels on and where I no longer have the benches back there it is really quick to pull the "foot locker" and the screws and the inner panels.
I have fixed some wiring issues and found some water leaks this way. would still someday want to remove the phillips screws and replace with stainless.
thinking of removing the ladder completely but may only cut it short so I can mount my BBQ on the tool box/bumper.
Adam Raeburn
Rothesay, NB
1976 Austin Mini
1977 GMC Palm Beach
---------------------------------------------------
Once you replace everything that is attached to something else. It will all be fixed.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #238732 is a reply to message #238712] |
Tue, 04 February 2014 09:12 |
Mr ERFisher
Messages: 7117
Registered: August 2005
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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read the link here by danW
http://gmcmotorhome.info/skin.html#hatch
gene
On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Sigmund Frankenfelter <
ziggy.frankenf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> So my roof ladder has some stripped screws on the rear panel. I guess I
> thought I would replace all sixteen of them with stainless screws and
> teenuts.
>
> Looking at the rear panel, I saw a lot of number three phillips head
> screws. The only thing is, I cannot loosen one of them. I even tapped on
> an impact driver, but considering the fiberglass construction of the rear
> panel, I figured I would crack the hell out of it if I hit it much more or
> harder with a hammer.
>
> My thought was, if I could get the panel off, I could get access to the
> other side of the surface and place the teenuts in there.
>
> Is this approach wrong?
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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>
--
Gene Fisher -- 74-23,77PB/ore/ca
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today --- give him a URL and
-------
http://gmcmotorhome.info/
Alternator Protection Cable
http://gmcmotorhome.info/APC.html
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| Re: Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #238738 is a reply to message #238712] |
Tue, 04 February 2014 09:50 |
Bob S.
Messages: 143
Registered: October 2012
Location: Rapid City, SD
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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I had the same problem with my ladder. I had about 5 bolts that were either lost or stripped. I had bought a rivnut installer for a repair I made when remodeling the interior so I decided to try it for the ladder repair. I was very skeptical because I didn't know if the fiberglass would hold the rivnuts. To my surprise it was a simple repair that took me all of 45 minutes. I made the repair at the beginning of last summer and have been up and down the ladder at least fifty times since then. The repair is still holding tight and seems stable at this point. It's worth a try and certainly easier than taking the rear hatch off or disassembling the interior. Good Luck
Bob and Pam Schilling
Rapid City, SD
"78 Royale
[Updated on: Tue, 04 February 2014 09:51] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #238741 is a reply to message #238712] |
Tue, 04 February 2014 10:13 |
Larry
Messages: 2875
Registered: January 2004
Location: Menomonie, WI
Karma: 10
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Senior Member |
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| Francois wrote on Mon, 03 February 2014 23:09 |
So my roof ladder has some stripped screws on the rear panel. I guess I thought I would replace all sixteen of them with stainless screws and teenuts.
Looking at the rear panel, I saw a lot of number three phillips head screws. The only thing is, I cannot loosen one of them. I even tapped on an impact driver, but considering the fiberglass construction of the rear panel, I figured I would crack the hell out of it if I hit it much more or harder with a hammer.
My thought was, if I could get the panel off, I could get access to the other side of the surface and place the teenuts in there.
Is this approach wrong?
|
I've been through this over the last few years progressively going to larger screws. If I had it to do over, during the remodeling process, while I had the rear cap out, I would preemptively remove all of the screws, and glue a 1" thick piece of Oak to the inside where the ladder screws are. I would then use an oversize oval head SS screws. I'd pre-drill the minor diameter of the screw and use a little bar soap so the screw goes in easy. SS screws tend to be a little soft and can twist off in hardwoods like oak, so the use of soap or beeswax can prevent that from happening. I did put a piece of Oak behind where the rear lower awning screws had stripped out and that has held for 8 yrs. JWID
Larry 
78 Royale w/500 Caddy
Menomonie, WI.
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| Re: Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #238755 is a reply to message #238752] |
Tue, 04 February 2014 13:05 |
Bob S.
Messages: 143
Registered: October 2012
Location: Rapid City, SD
Karma: 2
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Senior Member |
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Rivnuts are threaded inserts that install like rivets. There is a special tool to install them. I bought mine at NAPA but they are available other places also. I believe well nuts are threaded inserts that are wrapped in rubber and when you tighten the bolt the rubber expands and holds them in place. Well nuts require a little larger insertion hole than rivnuts, and I would have used those if I would have thought about them first. I would have saved $100.00 on the rivnut kit.
Bob and Pam Schilling
Rapid City, SD
"78 Royale
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #239065 is a reply to message #239060] |
Fri, 07 February 2014 08:24 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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I don't think that is what you want to do. The issue with the screws holding in the cap is the smc panel is too thin and brittle to hold a screw. The inserts are still going to have the same purchase into the smc as the original screws but now you have a bigger hole. Have you removed the plastic interior caps to expose the inside of the rear body?
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Feb 7, 2014, at 6:01 AM, Sigmund Frankenfelter <ziggy.frankenf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Well I am trying a brass product I got at Home Depot. They are about three eights long and are designed for wood. They have the 10-32 thread on the inside and threads on the outside that resemble those on a wood screw. They also have a slot for turning them with a flat head screwdriver.
>
> It looks like they will need to be set with maybe a fiberglass product or a glue. I am using one half inch long stainless steel 10-32 screws.
>
> If it doesn't work, I can easily get them out and go with rivet nuts or well nuts.
> _______________________________________________
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #239115 is a reply to message #239104] |
Fri, 07 February 2014 16:29 |
 |
USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Sigmund,
Be VERY careful if you need to drill holes to put rivet nuts, well nuts, or brass inserts into the plastic there are HEAPS of wires
running across the rear panel.
When I did mine I inadvertently drilled through a wire and my refrigerator stopped working. Turned out that the wire I drilled
through and severed was the 12VDC sent to the fridge control panel.
I would suggest you go buy a set of these:
http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-drill-stop-set-38336.html
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Sigmund Frankenfelter
I have not removed the inside panels. I looked at it and it looked very difficult.
The hole for the brass insert is not very much bigger, and it looks smaller than what I would have to drill with a well nut. As
well, the outer threads on the brass inserts are more substantial than on the stock screws.
It doesn't look like it can damage too much. I am going to start slow and try it on a bracket at a time.
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #239146 is a reply to message #239115] |
Fri, 07 February 2014 21:08 |
storm'n
Messages: 492
Registered: April 2007
Location: Ont. Can
Karma: 0
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Senior Member |
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From: Robert Mueller <robmueller@iinet.net.au>
>To: gmclist@temp.gmcnet.org
>Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 5:29:14 PM
>Subject: Re: [GMCnet] Ladder Screws and Rear panel
>
>
>Sigmund,
>
>Be VERY careful if you need to drill holes to put rivet nuts, well nuts, or brass inserts into the plastic there are HEAPS of wires
>running across the rear panel.
>
>When I did mine I inadvertently drilled through a wire and my refrigerator stopped working. Turned out that the wire I drilled
>through and severed was the 12VDC sent to the fridge control panel.
>
>I would suggest you go buy a set of these:
>
>http://www.harborfreight.com/7-piece-drill-stop-set-38336.html
>
>Regards,
>Rob M.
>Sydney, Australia
>AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
>USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sigmund Frankenfelter
>
>I have not removed the inside panels. I looked at it and it looked very difficult.
>
>The hole for the brass insert is not very much bigger, and it looks smaller than what I would have to drill with a well nut. As
>well, the outer threads on the brass inserts are more substantial than on the stock screws.
>
>It doesn't look like it can damage too much. I am going to start slow and try it on a bracket at a time.
>
>_______________________________________________
>GMCnet mailing list
>Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
>http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
>
>
>
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #239196 is a reply to message #239104] |
Sat, 08 February 2014 11:25 |
sgltrac
Messages: 2797
Registered: April 2011
Karma: 1
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Senior Member |
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I guess you don't have a lot to loose with the inserts I just do not see a lot to gain. The rear panel is about 1/8" thick and brittle so it does not take much to over turn the screws and strip the hole. Even without striping the hole the lateral holding power of the screws is minimal. Fortunately the bulk of the load is vertical on the ladder. Like you said the well nut holes are larger so you can always go back later. And do it again.
Todd Sullivan
Sully
77 royale
Seattle
> On Feb 7, 2014, at 1:46 PM, Sigmund Frankenfelter <ziggy.frankenf@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I have not removed the inside panels. I looked at it and it looked very difficult.
>
> The hole for the brass insert is not very much bigger, and it looks smaller than what I would have to drill with a well nut. As well, the outer threads on the brass inserts are more substantial than on the stock screws.
>
> It doesn't look like it can damage too much. I am going to start slow and try it on a bracket at a time.
> _______________________________________________
> GMCnet mailing list
> Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
> http://temp.gmcnet.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/gmclist
_______________________________________________
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Unsubscribe or Change List Options:
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Sully
77 Royale basket case.
Future motorhome land speed record holder(bucket list)
Seattle, Wa.
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| Re: [GMCnet] Ladder Screws and Rear panel [message #239223 is a reply to message #239196] |
Sat, 08 February 2014 18:10 |
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USAussie
Messages: 15912
Registered: July 2007
Location: Sydney, Australia
Karma: 6
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Senior Member |
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G'day,
I'll try AGAIN!
Here's a page out of the McMaster Carr catalog showing the Rivet Nuts I used to re-attach my ladder to the back of Double Trouble.
http://www.gmcmhphotos.com/photos/g6419-rivet-nuts-for-plastic.html
I used 1/4 x 20 with a grip length of 0.020 to 0.280 inches. I used stainless steel allen head cap screws to fasten the brackets to
the rivet nuts and coated them with moly grease before I installed them.
The bottom bracket screws into solid aluminum and I tapped those holes to 1/4 x 20. That's where I screwed up and drilled into a
wire so be careful!
Me and my fat butt have been climbing up and down that ladder for four years now and it is as solid as the day I installed it!
I replaced the rusty Philips screws that hold the rear panel in with a kit that JimB sells. To get the screws out I used a 3/8"
drive impact wrench. To keep from stripping the Philips heads I slowly pulled the trigger on the impact wrench and allowed it to
hammer without putting a lot of torque on the Philips heads. I wound up having to drill out two screws only.
Regards,
Rob M.
Sydney, Australia
AUS '75 Avion - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
USA '75 Avion - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Sullivan
I guess you don't have a lot to loose with the inserts I just do not see a lot to gain. The rear panel is about 1/8" thick and
brittle so it does not take much to over turn the screws and strip the hole. Even without striping the hole the lateral holding
power of the screws is minimal. Fortunately the bulk of the load is vertical on the ladder. Like you said the well nut holes are
larger so you can always go back later. And do it again.
Todd
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Regards,
Rob M. (USAussie)
The Pedantic Mechanic
Sydney, Australia
'75 Avion - AUS - The Blue Streak TZE365V100428
'75 Avion - USA - Double Trouble TZE365V100426
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